Curse

rdbruski · Jan 11, 2007, 08:05 PM // 20:05

I just started playing GW today. Its like my 4th MMO, so I'm not new to building characters. Anyway, while reading the Air skills, I notice that some of the spells cause extra damage if there is a Water Hex on the target. Why do I not see any Elementalist builds with Air primarily that also have some Water enough to cast hexes that would greatly increase their Air damage? Is it because there are better Air spells anyway and it would be a waste spending points on Water?

The spells I'm talking about are Lightning Touch, and Arc Lightning. I can see that Chain Lightning is better than Arc, so you'd want to use Chain. What about Lightning Touch? It seems like a powerful AoE with a water hex on the targets.

Please advise.

dudeimoncoke · Jan 11, 2007, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Well Lightning touch requires you to be in touch range which is something a caster might want to avoid. If you are talking about pve then lightning touch might not be THAT bad to use but its just that most people don't combine elements. The AoE water magic snares synergize nicely with the other ele skills but lightning touch seems inferior to the other ele AoE skills.

frojack · Jan 11, 2007, 08:52 PM // 20:52

A large proportion of the players in GW are generally not as creative as they could be. Just experiment and see what you come up with. Test it out and see how you like the results.
You can then quite easily find any old cookie cutter build (typical, over-used, but effective in the right hands) and test the results against each other. See what is more effective and which you prefer to use. That I believe is the best way to advance.

On the skill Lightning Touch; The damage is indeed pretty good. In fact it's the only 'real' Area of Effect spell in the air line. It's cheap. It's quick to cast/use. It's a skill so won't be effected by things that hurt the use of spells.
However it's also close-quarter damage. A place most spell casters usually don't want to be. However the Elementalist class is one of the few casting classes that have skills/spells to survive the front-line of the battlefield.
Effective Area of Effect (aoe) water hexes you can use to improve the damage are things like Blurred Vision, Frozen Burst, Rust etc. Like I said, just try this stuff out for yourself. Much better than listening to a bunch of random people

.

For information about builds and Guild Wars in general, if you haven't already, take a look at the guides on this site and also take a look at Guild Wiki. A great resource. Good luck and have fun...

rdbruski · Jan 11, 2007, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by frojack

A large proportion of the players in GW are generally not as creative as they could be. Just experiment and see what you come up with. Test it out and see how you like the results.
You can then quite easily find any old cookie cutter build (typical, over-used, but effective in the right hands) and test the results against each other. See what is more effective and which you prefer to use. That I believe is the best way to advance.

On the skill Lightning Touch; The damage is indeed pretty good. In fact it's the only 'real' Area of Effect spell in the air line. It's cheap. It's quick to cast/use. It's a skill so won't be effected by things that hurt the use of spells.
However it's also close-quarter damage. A place most spell casters usually don't want to be. However the Elementalist class is one of the few casting classes that have skills/spells to survive the front-line of the battlefield.
Effective Area of Effect (aoe) water hexes you can use to improve the damage are things like Blurred Vision, Frozen Burst, Rust etc. Like I said, just try this stuff out for yourself. Much better than listening to a bunch of random people

.

For information about builds and Guild Wars in general, if you haven't already, take a look at the guides on this site and also take a look at Guild Wiki. A great resource. Good luck and have fun...

Thanks so much for this great response. You are right, playing templates are boring and take much fun and mystery out of games.

dudeimoncoke · Jan 12, 2007, 01:08 AM // 01:08

if you are going to be in melee range to use lightning touch i suggest frozen burst since it does aoe dmg, snares, and hexes people all in one.

draxynnic · Jan 12, 2007, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Another thing to note is that the presence of Heroes in Nightfall makes synergies a lot easier to set up. Instead of having to split attributes yourself, you can make yourself a strong Air Elementalist while your sidekick has a lot of Water... or vice versa.

Thom Bangalter · Jan 12, 2007, 08:05 AM // 08:05

chain lightning is only marginally better than arc due to the higher energy cost, recharge issues, and exhaustion.

The issue with skills such as arc and lightning touch is that the bonus damage is conditional, and even then is worse than skills such as orb and strike.

Dr Strangelove · Jan 12, 2007, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Lightning touch is actually pretty bad, for a few reasons.

1. Recharge is too long for a skill you have to design your build around.
2. It's a skill. That means most ele energy management won't work on it, which makes it a very heavy energy burden.
3. Melee range is a bit close for a squishy to be playing around in, in my experience.

Arc Lightning could be ok, but it's only one skill, and thus not really worth designing a build around. If you've already specced water, it would be much easier just to bring a water damage spell than wasting attribute points in air for a single spell. Without the hex component, there's really no reason to bring it, as it becomes lightning strike with a long recharge. The only time I could see bringing this is if you had a water ele (not you) on the team and wanted to take advantage of that.

frojack · Jan 12, 2007, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Lightning touch is actually pretty bad, for a few reasons.

1. Recharge is too long for a skill you have to design your build around.
2. It's a skill. That means most ele energy management won't work on it, which makes it a very heavy energy burden.
3. Melee range is a bit close for a squishy to be playing around in, in my experience.

Arc Lightning could be ok, but it's only one skill, and thus not really worth designing a build around. If you've already specced water, it would be much easier just to bring a water damage spell than wasting attribute points in air for a single spell. Without the hex component, there's really no reason to bring it, as it becomes lightning strike with a long recharge. The only time I could see bringing this is if you had a water ele (not you) on the team and wanted to take advantage of that.

Actually it's a pretty good skill. One of the best in air if you can meet the conditions. The fact is if you can meet them, the damage is more less equal to that of Orb (1 point less), even without, it still comes in at around 83 damage (actually higher than Strike, even if the same can't be said about the dps).
The fact that this can be applied to all adjacent foes is not to be understated. No other 25% Armour Penetration skill can claim this.

Your point's...
@1: The 10 second recharge could do with being looked at. However it's not enough to dissuade usage of the skill (10 seconds isn't exactly earth shattering is it?).

@2: Completely false. Even if there was truth in your statement, 5 energy every 10 seconds will not break the bank of an elementalist if you know anything about energy management.

@3: Melee range is annoying but that's the price you pay. Have fun casting (and missing) with Orb if you feel like it. Orb is a great spell but by no means the be all and end all of Air Damage. I'll repeat myself. It does miss a hell of a lot in pvp and occasionally in pve...

For a Dual-build in Air and Water, all you need is around 9 points in Water and a minimum of 15 in Air. If you look at the actual damage numbers of Air that you'll that the extra 20 Attribute points don't get you very much...

Cebe · Jan 12, 2007, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Personally not fond of Lightning Touch as I don't like to get too close to the action.

I occaisionally mix elements and use a build such as the following:
[skill]Air Attunement[/skill][skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Lightning Strike[/skill][skill]Arc Lightning[/skill][skill]Gust[/skill][skill]Chilling Winds[/skill][skill]Ice Spikes[/skill][skill]Blurred Vision[/skill]

Basically incorporates snares and knockdowns...I use it for more of a supportive role. I could replace Lightning Strike for Blinding Flash, or Blurred Vision for Deep Freeze if more snaring is required - just personal choice really. I usually have Air Magic maxed out and then leave enough points in Energy Storage to keep me at 65-70 energy and re-distribute the others to Water Magic.

Edit:
Just a thought...If you wanted to use the touch skills the skillbar could look something like:
[skill]Air Attunement[/skill][skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Ride The Lightning[/skill][skill]Arc Lightning[/skill][skill]Lightning Touch[/skill][skill]Ice Spikes[/skill][skill]Blurred Vision[/skill][skill]Return[/skill]
That way you can cast a water hex (preferably Blurred Vision so there is a 50% chance to miss), Ride the Lightning in to the battle...use Lightning Touch. Use Return on the Monk (or any Back-line Caster) which also Cripples the foes and then Arc Lightning....rinse and repeat.

Wow - I impressed myself there...this one may have to be tested...

Neriandal Freit · Jan 12, 2007, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Question concerning your post/build Celest.

Is that build for PvP? I don't see a Ressurection-Anything in there and would be concerned about that if this was for PvE.

Cebe · Jan 12, 2007, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neriandal Freit

Question concerning your post/build Celest.

Is that build for PvP? I don't see a Ressurection-Anything in there and would be concerned about that if this was for PvE.

No it's not for PvP. I very very rarely take a resurrect on my ele in PvE. I guess if you really want to you can replace Ice Spikes with a res. For a start I usually play E/N and I outright refuse to take Resurrection Signet for reason's I've previously listed time after time. But yea...if you want to take res then just ditch a skill.

Neriandal Freit · Jan 12, 2007, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Ah, I do like the looks of your Edit Build Celest, that looks rather intriguing and a pain in the keister for anyone

I would rather not take a Res, but I am always like "GAH!" when seeing someone die, most often because of poor arrgoing and/or Monk/Warrior issues.

Cebe · Jan 12, 2007, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neriandal Freit

Ah, I do like the looks of your Edit Build Celest, that looks rather intriguing and a pain in the keister for anyone

I would rather not take a Res, but I am always like "GAH!" when seeing someone die, most often because of poor arrgoing and/or Monk/Warrior issues.

Personally I find taking a res on my ele limits me too much. I generally only take res on characters with a primary/secondary profession that allows me to take a reusable one. My ele is one of the only characters who doesn't take res. And I know I could make my E/N an E/Mo but she was born as an E/N so...Meh...when I'm not running a specialist build she stays as E/N because I'm sentimental. Also I've gotten used to being able to have 8 skills on my ele rather than 7-and-a-res.

Yes...I intrigued myself with that last one...I'm going to have to check it out when I get home...god damn work!

"poor arrgoing and/or Monk/Warrior issues" didn't you mean "poor aggroing by the Warrior/Monk"?

lol - silly wammos.

Dr Strangelove · Jan 12, 2007, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by frojack

Actually it's a pretty good skill. One of the best in air if you can meet the conditions. The fact is if you can meet them, the damage is more less equal to that of Orb (1 point less), even without, it still comes in at around 83 damage (actually higher than Strike, even if the same can't be said about the dps).
The fact that this can be applied to all adjacent foes is not to be understated. No other 25% Armour Penetration skill can claim this.

Your point's...
@1: The 10 second recharge could do with being looked at. However it's not enough to dissuade usage of the skill (10 seconds isn't exactly earth shattering is it?).

@2: Completely false. Even if there was truth in your statement, 5 energy every 10 seconds will not break the bank of an elementalist if you know anything about energy management.

@3: Melee range is annoying but that's the price you pay. Have fun casting (and missing) with Orb if you feel like it. Orb is a great spell but by no means the be all and end all of Air Damage. I'll repeat myself. It does miss a hell of a lot in pvp and occasionally in pve...

For a Dual-build in Air and Water, all you need is around 9 points in Water and a minimum of 15 in Air. If you look at the actual damage numbers of Air that you'll that the extra 20 Attribute points don't get you very much...

Crap, I need to look at skill listings before I talk, I forgot they reduced it from 15 energy. I have actually tested this skill for a spike, such as what's done the celestial's build. The ride the lightning/return combo is probably the best option for using touch. I'd also suggest whirlwind for a little added protection when you get in. Rust can be extremely sexy warrior shutdown in the right area as well (heal sig anyone). I'm not saying it isn't a fun build, teleporting around and playing electro-bomber is good stuff, there's just better options for party defense, PBAoE, and spiking

Cebe · Jan 15, 2007, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Edit:
Just a thought...If you wanted to use the touch skills the skillbar could look something like:
[skill]Air Attunement[/skill][skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Ride The Lightning[/skill][skill]Arc Lightning[/skill][skill]Lightning Touch[/skill][skill]Ice Spikes[/skill][skill]Blurred Vision[/skill][skill]Return[/skill]
That way you can cast a water hex (preferably Blurred Vision so there is a 50% chance to miss), Ride the Lightning in to the battle...use Lightning Touch. Use Return on the Monk (or any Back-line Caster) which also Cripples the foes and then Arc Lightning....rinse and repeat.

Wow - I impressed myself there...this one may have to be tested...

Ok so I tested this over the weekend and it's definitely LOADS of fun. Thing is energy becomes an issue over time. Not sure about the energy management in it but it's an absolute hoot to play with. I like the way it allows you to use Lightning Touch and then escape to safety reasonably fast. I have noted, however, at some times all skills can be recharging and that's a nuisance. >.<

Dr Strangelove · Jan 16, 2007, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Ok so I tested this over the weekend and it's definitely LOADS of fun. Thing is energy becomes an issue over time. Not sure about the energy management in it but it's an absolute hoot to play with. I like the way it allows you to use Lightning Touch and then escape to safety reasonably fast. I have noted, however, at some times all skills can be recharging and that's a nuisance. >.<

I toyed around with ride the lightning/lightning touch, and, for the life of me, I couldn't figure out why I was screwing my energy and damage by taking lightning touch and water hexes over fire PBAoE, or, for that matter, fire "stand back and don't get killed" AoE.

Lightning touch need a recharge reduction, ride the lightning needs to not cause exhaustion for this to be a viable build.

Not that playing human lightning bolt isn't good for kicks.

Evilsod · Jan 16, 2007, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Do you really want to be within melee range of the backline casters? There a reason nobody uses Ride the Lightning (other than the fact it sucks). It takes you EXACTLY where you don't want to be.

My assassin does use a Water hero and an Air hero though. But Lightning Touch is WAY out of it. Chilling Winds is pretty good when it makes a 20/21s Deep Freeze on something.

Cebe · Jan 16, 2007, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Do you really want to be within melee range of the backline casters? There a reason nobody uses Ride the Lightning (other than the fact it sucks). It takes you EXACTLY where you don't want to be.

My assassin does use a Water hero and an Air hero though. But Lightning Touch is WAY out of it. Chilling Winds is pretty good when it makes a 20/21s Deep Freeze on something.

You did look at that build, didn't you? *confused look*

You did actually read it?

The last skill on that skillbar is "Return". You teleport to an ally and cripple those around you. When you use Ride the Lightning to get to your water-hexed target, you use Lightning Touch and Return. You're within melee range for maybe 3-5 seconds. Also, might I add...if you hexed them with Blurred Vision that's also a 50% chance to miss with attacks. I've not died yet testing this build. Besides...being in melee range is not the biggest problem with that build, it is energy management. I was wondering if Water Attunement would work better than Air Attunement but I guess that would be something to test...

On another thought...if you wanted to stay in melee range longer you would work in an armor buff such as Armor of Frost. Just a thought...no idea if it would work.

Neriandal Freit · Jan 22, 2007, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Well Celest, have you solved the energy management at all? I'm getting antsy to add this build to the Templates and give it a whirl